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	<title>Comments on: Disproof of Bell&#8217;s Theorem</title>
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	<description>The Blog of Joy Christian</description>
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		<title>By: Joy Christian</title>
		<link>http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/disproof-of-bells-theorem-book/#comment-56403</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joy Christian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2025 22:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/?page_id=28#comment-56403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, there is a lot of confusion in the literature both about contextuality and Bell’s theorem.

To begin with, one should distinguish between “local” contextuality and “remote” contextuality. I have no problem with local contextuality. It simply means that the result of a measurement can reasonably depend on the disposition of the measuring apparatus, such as the orientation of the Stern-Gerlach apparatus. There is nothing nonclassical about that. Even in classical physics results of some measurements depend on the disposition of the measuring device. For example, the result of a coin toss experiment would depend on whether the tossed coin is collected in a bucket full of air or water, where air and water would represent two different contexts.

The “remote” contextuality, on the other hand, simply means nonlocality. The result Alice observes should not depend on the disposition or orientation of Bob’s measuring apparatus. If it does, then we have nonlocality. The 3-sphere model shows that there is no such thing as remote contextuality.

What is more, the earlier 3-sphere model without limiting processes is not even locally contextual, as we can clearly see from the definitions of the measurement functions in equations (16) and (17) in the paper you mention. The value of the results does not depend on the direction of measurements, a or a’. 

There is also an algebraic notion of contextuality, which is related to the experimental contextuality I mentioned above.  Alice’s choice of measurement direction can be either a or a’. But the local bivectors I.a and I.a’, or Pauli operators sigma.a and sigma.a’, do not commute. Therefore, one can say that the entire set of commuting operators defines one and the same context. This is a rather sophisticated notion that is preferred by mathematically inclined people who work on operator algebras, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, there is a lot of confusion in the literature both about contextuality and Bell’s theorem.</p>
<p>To begin with, one should distinguish between “local” contextuality and “remote” contextuality. I have no problem with local contextuality. It simply means that the result of a measurement can reasonably depend on the disposition of the measuring apparatus, such as the orientation of the Stern-Gerlach apparatus. There is nothing nonclassical about that. Even in classical physics results of some measurements depend on the disposition of the measuring device. For example, the result of a coin toss experiment would depend on whether the tossed coin is collected in a bucket full of air or water, where air and water would represent two different contexts.</p>
<p>The “remote” contextuality, on the other hand, simply means nonlocality. The result Alice observes should not depend on the disposition or orientation of Bob’s measuring apparatus. If it does, then we have nonlocality. The 3-sphere model shows that there is no such thing as remote contextuality.</p>
<p>What is more, the earlier 3-sphere model without limiting processes is not even locally contextual, as we can clearly see from the definitions of the measurement functions in equations (16) and (17) in the paper you mention. The value of the results does not depend on the direction of measurements, a or a’. </p>
<p>There is also an algebraic notion of contextuality, which is related to the experimental contextuality I mentioned above.  Alice’s choice of measurement direction can be either a or a’. But the local bivectors I.a and I.a’, or Pauli operators sigma.a and sigma.a’, do not commute. Therefore, one can say that the entire set of commuting operators defines one and the same context. This is a rather sophisticated notion that is preferred by mathematically inclined people who work on operator algebras, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/disproof-of-bells-theorem-book/#comment-56385</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2025 11:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/?page_id=28#comment-56385</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mh, in any case regardless of the physics it&#039;s pretty clear so far all attempts at quantum computing are essentially stock bubbles. We&#039;ve seen this kind of thing many times with cold fusion, RT superconductors, etc. 
.
Unrelated question: in another paper &quot;Whither All the Scope and Generality of Bell’s Theorem?&quot; you mention, after equation 19, that the measurement functions are not contextual. As I&#039;ve already previously asked, in another paper instead you mentioned your model is contextual. 
.
All of this brought me to actually better understand what is meant by contextuality. I previously thought it is simply the notion that measurements don&#039;t simply &quot;reveal&quot; a variable, but rather they interact with the measured system in order to generate the final experimental outcome. The same spin bivector, for example, would yield different results depending on what axis we are measuring it from, as the measurement rotates the spin to align it with the axis itself. I thought contextuality is simply the notion that A is a function of (a,lambda). I don&#039;t see anything non-classical in this notion. Moreover, it naturally leads to assume that it&#039;s nonsensical to assign a joint probability distribution for measurements that can&#039;t be performed at the same time: it&#039;s not possible to rotate spin in different directions simultaneously.
.
The literature however, more broadly speaks about contextuality as an essential non-classical feature of QM, basically that the result of a measurement depends also on all other compatible measurements that are being made on the system. This is a completely different notion to me, and I&#039;m not sure anymore how that squares with the Bell functions like A(a,lambda). In quantum mechanics, the system is the whole entangled state, so i can see how that would be &quot;contextual&quot; in the latter sense (the two particles belong to the same state). But in a hidden variable theories the two particles don&#039;t belong to the same state. They are separate systems. Considering the definition of contextuality here means that the measurement of one particle depends also on the measurement of the other particle (as that is the only other &quot;compatible&quot; measurement that can be made), which of course means non-locality.
.
I think much ado about bell&#039;s theorem is the terrible confusion it generates in the literature.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mh, in any case regardless of the physics it&#8217;s pretty clear so far all attempts at quantum computing are essentially stock bubbles. We&#8217;ve seen this kind of thing many times with cold fusion, RT superconductors, etc.<br />
.<br />
Unrelated question: in another paper &#8220;Whither All the Scope and Generality of Bell’s Theorem?&#8221; you mention, after equation 19, that the measurement functions are not contextual. As I&#8217;ve already previously asked, in another paper instead you mentioned your model is contextual.<br />
.<br />
All of this brought me to actually better understand what is meant by contextuality. I previously thought it is simply the notion that measurements don&#8217;t simply &#8220;reveal&#8221; a variable, but rather they interact with the measured system in order to generate the final experimental outcome. The same spin bivector, for example, would yield different results depending on what axis we are measuring it from, as the measurement rotates the spin to align it with the axis itself. I thought contextuality is simply the notion that A is a function of (a,lambda). I don&#8217;t see anything non-classical in this notion. Moreover, it naturally leads to assume that it&#8217;s nonsensical to assign a joint probability distribution for measurements that can&#8217;t be performed at the same time: it&#8217;s not possible to rotate spin in different directions simultaneously.<br />
.<br />
The literature however, more broadly speaks about contextuality as an essential non-classical feature of QM, basically that the result of a measurement depends also on all other compatible measurements that are being made on the system. This is a completely different notion to me, and I&#8217;m not sure anymore how that squares with the Bell functions like A(a,lambda). In quantum mechanics, the system is the whole entangled state, so i can see how that would be &#8220;contextual&#8221; in the latter sense (the two particles belong to the same state). But in a hidden variable theories the two particles don&#8217;t belong to the same state. They are separate systems. Considering the definition of contextuality here means that the measurement of one particle depends also on the measurement of the other particle (as that is the only other &#8220;compatible&#8221; measurement that can be made), which of course means non-locality.<br />
.<br />
I think much ado about bell&#8217;s theorem is the terrible confusion it generates in the literature.</p>
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		<title>By: Joy Christian</title>
		<link>http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/disproof-of-bells-theorem-book/#comment-56251</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joy Christian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Feb 2025 21:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/?page_id=28#comment-56251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don’t know enough about QC to know that quantum correlations are enough for quantum computations. Perhaps it would be possible to do computation on a 3-sphere to do what quantum computers are supposed to do. I don’t know. 

20th June is not a good time for me to attend the conference in Munich. But if you attend and see Chantal there, then please give her my regards.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t know enough about QC to know that quantum correlations are enough for quantum computations. Perhaps it would be possible to do computation on a 3-sphere to do what quantum computers are supposed to do. I don’t know. </p>
<p>20th June is not a good time for me to attend the conference in Munich. But if you attend and see Chantal there, then please give her my regards.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/disproof-of-bells-theorem-book/#comment-56236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Feb 2025 11:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/?page_id=28#comment-56236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do wonder though if the QC algorithms fundamentally rely on the natural strength of quantum correlations. Perhaps a normal computer calculating things on a 3-sphere structure could do the same thing QC would do. 
.
On an unrelated note, I was wondering if you&#039;d be interested in participating at the PAMO (Conference for Physical and Mathematical Ontology) conference held in Munich this summer (20th june). A bunch of independent physicists are going to attend to present their theories, spanning from stuff on magnetic monopoles, origin of inertia, machian mond, etc. Chantal Roth will be one of the attendees, which sparked my interest in the conference. 
.
I myself was debating wether to attend as spectator, Munich is some distance away from me. It&#039;s a small conference for open minded people, there are not going to be famous names attending.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do wonder though if the QC algorithms fundamentally rely on the natural strength of quantum correlations. Perhaps a normal computer calculating things on a 3-sphere structure could do the same thing QC would do.<br />
.<br />
On an unrelated note, I was wondering if you&#8217;d be interested in participating at the PAMO (Conference for Physical and Mathematical Ontology) conference held in Munich this summer (20th june). A bunch of independent physicists are going to attend to present their theories, spanning from stuff on magnetic monopoles, origin of inertia, machian mond, etc. Chantal Roth will be one of the attendees, which sparked my interest in the conference.<br />
.<br />
I myself was debating wether to attend as spectator, Munich is some distance away from me. It&#8217;s a small conference for open minded people, there are not going to be famous names attending.</p>
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		<title>By: Joy Christian</title>
		<link>http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/disproof-of-bells-theorem-book/#comment-56090</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joy Christian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Feb 2025 16:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/?page_id=28#comment-56090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am not an expert in QC either. But we do not have to be experts in QC to recognize that the whole enterprise is misguided. Unlike the classical bits of classical computers, QC uses ``qubits’’ as building blocks. You will hear in the news almost every day that companies such as Google or Microsoft have built a quantum computer with 100 qubits, or 500 qubits, etc. These are all exaggerations. No practically usable QC exists despite their claims to the contrary. One would need millions, if not billions or trillions, of qubits for a QC to do anything useful.
 
Now qubits are the fundamental units of quantum information. Unlike classical bits, qubits can exist in a superposition of states. Meaning, they can be in both 0 and 1 states simultaneously, until measured. So, qubits, and thus QC, presume that quantum superposition is a real thing and not just a theoretical fantasy. Even if superposition were a real thing, in the end, it has to be measured to obtain classical bits, without which it would be impossible to do any reliable computation with QC.

Mikail Dyakonov’s objections to QC are at this practical level. By contrast, my lack of interest in QC is at the fundamental level because I think that Bell’s theorem is false, and quantum superposition is just an illusion caused by a lack of information about the complete state built with hidden variables.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not an expert in QC either. But we do not have to be experts in QC to recognize that the whole enterprise is misguided. Unlike the classical bits of classical computers, QC uses &#8220;qubits’’ as building blocks. You will hear in the news almost every day that companies such as Google or Microsoft have built a quantum computer with 100 qubits, or 500 qubits, etc. These are all exaggerations. No practically usable QC exists despite their claims to the contrary. One would need millions, if not billions or trillions, of qubits for a QC to do anything useful.</p>
<p>Now qubits are the fundamental units of quantum information. Unlike classical bits, qubits can exist in a superposition of states. Meaning, they can be in both 0 and 1 states simultaneously, until measured. So, qubits, and thus QC, presume that quantum superposition is a real thing and not just a theoretical fantasy. Even if superposition were a real thing, in the end, it has to be measured to obtain classical bits, without which it would be impossible to do any reliable computation with QC.</p>
<p>Mikail Dyakonov’s objections to QC are at this practical level. By contrast, my lack of interest in QC is at the fundamental level because I think that Bell’s theorem is false, and quantum superposition is just an illusion caused by a lack of information about the complete state built with hidden variables.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/disproof-of-bells-theorem-book/#comment-56085</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Feb 2025 14:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/?page_id=28#comment-56085</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Joy!
Slightly different question from usual: how does providing a local realistic hvm affect the field of quantum computing? I&#039;m far from an expert on that, but I have seen your past posts on it and some words by Mikail Dyakonov. While I understand the practical issue he raised, i&#039;m not sure whether QC in general requires superposition to be a &quot;real thing&quot; rather than an illusion caused by lack of information of the complete state. Does QC fundamentally rely on Bell being &quot;right&quot;?
.
QC is usually predicated on QM providing a physical phenomenon that cannot be simulated by a classical computer. But your simulations of course show the contrary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Joy!<br />
Slightly different question from usual: how does providing a local realistic hvm affect the field of quantum computing? I&#8217;m far from an expert on that, but I have seen your past posts on it and some words by Mikail Dyakonov. While I understand the practical issue he raised, i&#8217;m not sure whether QC in general requires superposition to be a &#8220;real thing&#8221; rather than an illusion caused by lack of information of the complete state. Does QC fundamentally rely on Bell being &#8220;right&#8221;?<br />
.<br />
QC is usually predicated on QM providing a physical phenomenon that cannot be simulated by a classical computer. But your simulations of course show the contrary.</p>
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		<title>By: Joy Christian</title>
		<link>http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/disproof-of-bells-theorem-book/#comment-49427</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joy Christian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Sep 2024 10:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/?page_id=28#comment-49427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for this information. I haven&#039;t paid much attention to such experiments since I am usually put off when they mention &quot;violations of Bell inequalities&quot;, non-locality, etc. Such claims are utterly misguided in my view. Nothing &quot;non-local&quot; is going on in Nature. 

Keep looking into such publications and find their hidden assumptions. Sometimes it takes a long time to figure out their missteps and mistakes. For example, I have worked on the GHZ theorem before, reproducing (in 2009) all of the predictions of the 3- and 4-particle GHZ states within the 7-sphere framework. But only recently I discovered the mistake in the GHZ argument itself, which I have now published in the one-page comment paper I linked above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this information. I haven&#8217;t paid much attention to such experiments since I am usually put off when they mention &#8220;violations of Bell inequalities&#8221;, non-locality, etc. Such claims are utterly misguided in my view. Nothing &#8220;non-local&#8221; is going on in Nature. </p>
<p>Keep looking into such publications and find their hidden assumptions. Sometimes it takes a long time to figure out their missteps and mistakes. For example, I have worked on the GHZ theorem before, reproducing (in 2009) all of the predictions of the 3- and 4-particle GHZ states within the 7-sphere framework. But only recently I discovered the mistake in the GHZ argument itself, which I have now published in the one-page comment paper I linked above.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/disproof-of-bells-theorem-book/#comment-49425</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Sep 2024 10:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/?page_id=28#comment-49425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quantum dots and time bin experiments violate the inequality still. The measurements are not direction measurements like in spin  polarization EPR tests, rather they use interference through a Mach-Zender interferometer. It&#039;s time-energy entanglement.
.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41567-024-02543-8
.
But here&#039;s the funny thing: I was worried by this since it appears we can&#039;t model with S3 something that is not direction-dependent like interference. Then I looked up the supporting information. 
.
https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41567-024-02543-8/MediaObjects/41567_2024_2543_MOESM1_ESM.pdf
.
Turns out that to select the appropriate phase to measure through interference, they used... You guessed it... A polarizer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quantum dots and time bin experiments violate the inequality still. The measurements are not direction measurements like in spin  polarization EPR tests, rather they use interference through a Mach-Zender interferometer. It&#8217;s time-energy entanglement.<br />
.<br />
<a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41567-024-02543-8" rel="nofollow">https://www.nature.com/articles/s41567-024-02543-8</a><br />
.<br />
But here&#8217;s the funny thing: I was worried by this since it appears we can&#8217;t model with S3 something that is not direction-dependent like interference. Then I looked up the supporting information.<br />
.<br />
<a href="https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41567-024-02543-8/MediaObjects/41567_2024_2543_MOESM1_ESM.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41567-024-02543-8/MediaObjects/41567_2024_2543_MOESM1_ESM.pdf</a><br />
.<br />
Turns out that to select the appropriate phase to measure through interference, they used&#8230; You guessed it&#8230; A polarizer.</p>
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		<title>By: Joy Christian</title>
		<link>http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/disproof-of-bells-theorem-book/#comment-49370</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joy Christian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Sep 2024 17:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/?page_id=28#comment-49370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, Bell&#039;s theorem is simply a non-sequitur, and Bell inequalities are therefore irrelevant.  

In modeling correlations, it is worth remembering that not all correlations are as strong as those predicted by the singlet state. The 2\/2 strength of the correlations is the strongest possible strength of any correlations predicted by quantum states. This was proved by the late mathematician Boris Tsirel’son. Thus, the directionality and orientations of the 3-sphere are needed only for the correlations of strengths greater than the bounds of 2 on the CHSH quantity. For the rest, such as those involving the “time of flight” of photons or quantum dots, the ordinary R^3 model of the physical space would suffice. Moreover, for those correlations that are stronger than the bounds of 2 on the CHSH quantity, we have the general 7-sphere framework (published in my Royal Society papers). That framework, although more complicated than the 3-sphere model, accommodates a local-realistic understanding of all possible correlations predicted by any general quantum state. 

It is also important to remember that the purpose of a hidden variable interpretation is not to replace quantum theory but to provide a local-realistic foundation to it, similar to how statistical mechanics provided a deeper foundation for thermodynamics without replacing it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Bell&#8217;s theorem is simply a non-sequitur, and Bell inequalities are therefore irrelevant.  </p>
<p>In modeling correlations, it is worth remembering that not all correlations are as strong as those predicted by the singlet state. The 2\/2 strength of the correlations is the strongest possible strength of any correlations predicted by quantum states. This was proved by the late mathematician Boris Tsirel’son. Thus, the directionality and orientations of the 3-sphere are needed only for the correlations of strengths greater than the bounds of 2 on the CHSH quantity. For the rest, such as those involving the “time of flight” of photons or quantum dots, the ordinary R^3 model of the physical space would suffice. Moreover, for those correlations that are stronger than the bounds of 2 on the CHSH quantity, we have the general 7-sphere framework (published in my Royal Society papers). That framework, although more complicated than the 3-sphere model, accommodates a local-realistic understanding of all possible correlations predicted by any general quantum state. </p>
<p>It is also important to remember that the purpose of a hidden variable interpretation is not to replace quantum theory but to provide a local-realistic foundation to it, similar to how statistical mechanics provided a deeper foundation for thermodynamics without replacing it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/disproof-of-bells-theorem-book/#comment-49340</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Sep 2024 04:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/?page_id=28#comment-49340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, Bell&#039;s theorem is simply a non-sequitur for that reason, period. 
.
But then we still need to model the correlations. For spin measurements we have directionality, and this can be intended as orientations in a 3-sphere. So it&#039;s just in this context that we can use quaternions/GA?
.
I&#039;ve recently come to know other types of entanglement experiments that don&#039;t involve directionality at all, like time-bin experiments involving &quot;time of flight&quot; of photons, or quantum dots. I thought I had an intuition now for how GA represented orientation entanglement, but these experiment don&#039;t seem to involve that at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, Bell&#8217;s theorem is simply a non-sequitur for that reason, period.<br />
.<br />
But then we still need to model the correlations. For spin measurements we have directionality, and this can be intended as orientations in a 3-sphere. So it&#8217;s just in this context that we can use quaternions/GA?<br />
.<br />
I&#8217;ve recently come to know other types of entanglement experiments that don&#8217;t involve directionality at all, like time-bin experiments involving &#8220;time of flight&#8221; of photons, or quantum dots. I thought I had an intuition now for how GA represented orientation entanglement, but these experiment don&#8217;t seem to involve that at all.</p>
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